QUESTION:

Dear Father Michael:

What is Conclavism?

P.L.
 
 

ANSWER:

Dear P.L.,

Thank you so much for your question.

Briefly, Conclavism came about as the result of what some Catholic Bishops and Priests perceived to be the absence of a valid Roman Catholic Pope because they considered all Popes, beginning with 2nd Pope John 23, and all of his successors down to the present, to be anti-Popes because of their alleged adherence to the Heresy of Modernism, and hence their incurrence of the censure of automatic excommunication imposed by Pope Saint Pius X against all Modernist Heretics, among other reasons.

Because nothing exists in a vacuum, it was only logical that this vacuum, whether perceived or misperceived is really irrelevant on this specific point, should be filled up with a valid and legal Roman Catholic Pope.  The problem for the said Catholic Bishops and Priests who felt betrayed by the Vatican 2 Popes, was HOW to elect a valid and legal Roman Catholic Pope.  The solution was to have either what some call an "imperfect council" and/or a "conclave" in order for the alleged virtual handful of practicing Roman Catholic Bishops to elect one of their own as this utopian valid and legal Roman Catholic Pope.

However, Conclavism, despite the best of intentions to the contrary, became a disaster and has caused a great deal of harm to the souls of many of the Catholic Faithful - Laity, Religious, and Clergy.

In summary, it ultimately became a ship without a captain to steer it and instead devolved into personal fiefdoms of certain Bishops.  The "ship" sank because of disunity and distrust among various Clergy, especially Bishops - and the lifeboats, going in various directions, describe the resulting chaos and confusion, what with some lifeboats Clergyless - in which the Laity were in charge of Mass centers, Mass Chapels, and some Church buildings (similar to the Protestants), and others with one or more Clergy aboard but who decried the lack of ecclesiastical unity which was complicated by the ecclesiastical political "parties" involved to make peace, each one with all the rest.  The destructive ecclesiastical political "parties" were somewhat akin to American politics in which the Democratic and Republican parties are frequently at opposite poles of thought and action.

If you would like more details, please continue to read further.  Thank You.

Conclavism is a term used to describe the beliefs and practices of a small minority of Catholic Clergy, along with their followers, whom certain authors have labeled "sedevacantists", who reject the generally accepted line of succession to the papacy and instead give their allegiance to alternative popes, i.e. anti-popes, whom they themselves, or their Clergy, have elected.

Conclavism comes from the word conclave, which is used in relation to centuries-old Roman Catholic papal elections.

Conclavistsare usually strongly opposed by other Traditionalist Catholics, including the main-line sedevacantists with whom they share the belief that the succession of popes in the Vatican 2 church is invalid, as well as the popes themselves are invalid.  This succession began with 2nd Pope John 23, Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli [Tuesday, October 28, 1958 - Monday, June 3, 1963] whom the adherents of Pope Gregory XVII (Giuseppe Cardinal Siri, [b. Sunday, May 20, 1906 in Genoa, Italy - d. Tuesday, May 2, 1989]), the conservative Archbishop of Genoa, Italy claim illegally replaced the Cardinal who had been elected Pope, i.e. Cardinal Siri.

Giuseppe Cardinal Siri
Pope Gregory XVII

Adherents of Pope Gregory XVII, a.k.a. Giuseppe Cardinal Siri, present their case as follows:

Cardinal Giuseppe Siri was legally and validly elected the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church in the conclave of Cardinals which met in 1958 to choose a successor to Pope Pius XII, Eugenio Pacelli [Thursday, March 2, 1939 - Thursday, October 9, 1958].

But newly-elected Pope Gregory XVII (formerly Cardinal Siri) was put under grave duress, threatened, and prevented from taking the Papal Chair (i.e. from publically proclaiming His Pontificacy).  His replacement was
Angelo Giuseppe Cardinal Roncalli who became known to history as 2nd Pope John 23.

There is evidence that in 1958, during the Conclave, the enemies of the Roman Catholic Church were threatening Cardinal Siri with destruction if he took the Chair of Peter (i.e. as stated "Cardinal Siri" after being canonically elected, accepted the papacy and chose the name Gregory XVII.

The 5th column enemies of the Roman Catholic Church who were certain Cardinals who were physically within the Conclave walls themselves, then used ferocious, vicious, and real threats against Pope Gregory XVII if he was to publically announce that he had been elected the Pope - the Papal successor of Pope Pius XII.

This explains why all of the apparent popes after Pope Pius XII are imposters, i.e. anti-popes), because Pope Gregory XVII (Cardinal Siri) was now the lawfully and validly elected true Pope in the Conclave of 1958.

It is necessary to to present this point of law:

"Resignation is invalid by law if it was made out of grave fear unjustly inflicted, fraud, substantial error, or simony" (Code of Canon Law - 1917, Canon 185).

Pope Gregory XVII died on May 2, 1989 A.D., and is said to have passed on the true pontificate to an as yet unknown successor, who will emerge in due time after the eclipse of the Church predicted by the Blessed Virgin Mary at LaSalette, France, has ended.

In summary, this suppressed pontificate in the person of Pope Gregory XVII - Joseph Cardinal Siri of Genoa, who was canonically elected in 1958, but thereafter immediately overthrown, and was intimidated into keeping silent about his status (as were the Cardinals he secretly created in the secret exercise of his Papal Office) for 31 years.

Cardinal Siri was the Papal Legate to Religious Celebrations
at the International Exposition of Brussels, Belgium, July 1958 A.D.

Unlike ALL of the other pretenders to the Papacy, Pope Gregory XVII - Joseph Cardinal Siri, seems to have the strongest case to be considered a valid Pope.  Why is this?

Once again, some followers of Pope Gregory XVII provide the answers.  But rather than turn this into a classical Apologetic for Cardinal Siri and thus Pope Gregory XVII, what follows is only a very brief reference to but a few of their many "proofs" for their position to simply show there position is not frivoulous, but rather reasonably documented:

Alleged Fifth Column Infiltrator
Cardinal Tisserant

(One of the Fifth Column Infiltrators in the Conclave was) .... undoubtedly Cardinal Tisserant, Dean of the College of Cardinals, who controlled the block of six French Cardinals, and promoted a unanimous vote for Siri to get him elected, only to announce immediately that he was "annulling" Cardinal Siri's election, supposedly to prevent the assassination of the Iron Curtain Bishops which he declared would occur as an act of reprisal by the Soviet Communists against the Roman Catholic Church, for electing such a vehement anti-Communist Pope.

That such an occurrence actually happened was verified by former Vatican official, Father Jean - Marie Char-Roux on July 14, 1993, in London, England.

8. Then others joined the French. The Germans vacillated, then, at some point gave way and joined the rest (Benny Lai, "The Unelected Pope; Giuseppe Siri, Cardinal of the Holy Roman Church", published in 1993, , # 8 pp. 296-297).

Here Siri reveals for the first time, his unanimous election as Pope, when finally, the German Cardinals "joined the rest" and voted for him on the fourth ballot, at 6 P.M., October 26, 1958.

[Editor's Note:  The reference to Fifth Column Infiltrators is a vague way of referring to Zionist Jews.  The "Fifth Column" was used by Maurice Pinay in his very extensively documented book "The Plot Against the Church" to refer to the members of the Jewish Fifth Column Infiltrators in the Roman Catholic Church, primarily Priests, Bishops, Archbishops, Cardinals, and even some Popes.]

Pope Pius XII Speaking with Cardinal Siri
 

Catholic Prophecies Concerning Pope Gregory XVII

Some followers of Pope Gregory XVII provide the public with a long list of prophecies of which they quote the actual texts.  Because there are so many of these prophecies which they interpret as refering to Pope Gregory XVII, whether directly or indirectly, whether by name or, more usually, more generically and not by actual name, here are three of these prophecies provided as a courtesy to all readers.

1)

Henry Edward Cardinal Manning
[b. at born at Totteridge, Hertfordshire, England on July 15, 1808 –
d.  at London, England on January 14. 1892]

“The apostasy of the city of Rome from the vicar of Christ and its destruction by anti-Christ may be thoughts so new to many Catholics, that I think it well to recite the text of theologians of greatest repute.  First Malvenda, who writes expressly on the subject, states as the opinion of Ribera, Gaspar Melus, Biegas, Suarrez, Bellarmine and Bosius that Rome shall apostatize from the faith, drive away the Vicar of Christ and return to its ancient paganism. ...Then the [Roman Catholic] Church shall be scattered, driven into the wilderness, and shall be for a time, as it was in the beginning, invisible hidden in catacombs, in dens, in mountains, in lurking places; for a time it shall be swept, as it were from the face of the earth. Such is the universal testimony of the Fathers of the early Church” (Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, “The Present Crisis of the Holy See” 1861, London: Burns and Lambert, pp. 88-90).

2)

Archbishop Saint Mælmhaedhoc (Malachy) O’Morgair
[b. at Armagh, Ireland in 1094 A.D. -
d. at the Abbey of Clairvaux on
Tuesday, November 2, 1148 A.D.;
Feast Day November 3

Archbishop Saint Malachy's prophecies concerning the Popes begins with # 1 on his list - Pope Celestine II, Guido [Sunday, September 26, 1143 - Wednesday, March 8, 1144] identified as Ex castro Tyberis - From a castle on the Tiber.  This prophecy fits because he was born in Citta di Castello, Tuscany, on the shores of the Tiber River.

# 109 is the 263rd Pope from Saint Peter on his list is identified as:  De Medietate Lunae - From the Midst of the Moon.

This is often translated: "From the Half of the Moon". The biblical symbolism of the "moon" is "the worldly kingdom" or "the temporal order."  Therefore, this Pope might possibly be elected from the midst of Cardinals who are primarily influenced by the world and have worldly or materialistic ideas, e.g. social gospel, etc.  (This interpretation they apply to Cardinal Siri, Pope Gregory XVII).

Or, this Pope might possibly be elected at a time when the forces of Satan, who is the "Prince of this World", have virtual control of the entire earth via their secret government, e.g. Zionism, possibly even influencing the papal election, so that an agent of the world anti-Christ government is elected Pope. (This interpretation they apply to Cardinal Roncalli, 2n Pope John 23 whom they claim was a Freemason.  "The Plot Against the Church" claims that Freemasonry is one of the tentacles of militant Zionism).

[Editor's Notes:  However, there is a problem with the sequence of # 109.  According to my calculations, # 109 was  Pope John-Paul 1, Albano Luciani [Saturday, August 26, 1978 - Thursday, September 28, 1978].

IF one translates De Medietate Lunae as - From the half of the moon, the most probable application to Pope John-Paul I that would "fit" him would be the fact that he was born in Canale d'Ogardo, Diocese of Belluno, (Belluno means "beautiful moon"), but even more convincing is the fact that he was elected Pope on August 26, 1978. His reign lasted 33 days - from half of one moon to half of the next moon - hence, De Medietate Lunae - From the half of the moon.

Also, because in Archbishop Malachy's list, the Pope immediately after Pope Pius XII (who is listed as # 106  Pastor Angelicus - Angelic Pastor), is Pope # 107 - Pastor et Nauta - Pastor and Sailor, which was 2nd Pope John 23 who, before his election as Pope, was Cardinal Roncalli who was the Patriarch of Venice, Italy which is the city of gondolas. Yet the followers of Cardinal Siri - their Pope Gregory XVII - claim he was elected immediately after the reign of Pope Pius XII.

Would Pope # 107 - Pastor et Nauta - Pastor and Sailor, somehow "fit" Cardinal Siri, somehow Pope Gregory XVII?

First of all, the followers of Cardinal Siri - Pope Gregory XVII - have chosen NOT to identify him as # 107 - Pastor et Nauta - Pastor and Sailor, but rather as # 109, De Medietate Lunae - From the half of the moon.  So, they are out of sync by two popes because # 109 does not come after Pius XII who was # 106!!!

Second, it is ironic that it is possible to try to make # 107 - Pastor et Nauta - Pastor and Sailor, "fit" Cardinal Siri!  How?  Because he was the Archbishop of Genoa, Italy which is an important seaport in northern Italy!

The obvious problem with the prophecies of Archbishop Malacy which extend up to Pope # 112 in his listing who is "Peter the Roman" is that they are too vague and can be logically applied to more than one person, as in the above case of both Cardinal Siri - Pope Gregory XVII and Cardinal Roncalli - 2nd Pope John 23.

For the record, concerning "Peter the Roman", here is the actual text:

In persecutione extrema Sancta Roma Ecclesia, sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oues in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis ciuitas septicollis diruetur, and Iudex tremêdus iudicabit populum suum. Finis.

(In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there shall reign Peter the Roman who will feed his flock amid many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city [Rome] will be destroyed and the terrible judge will judge the people. The End.)]

3)

Anne Catherine Emmerich
[b. at Flamschen - Coesfeld, Westphalia, Holy Roman Empire, on September 8, 1774 -
d. at Dülmen, Westphalia, German Confederation, on February 9, 1824]

Anne Catherine Emmerich Prophesied about a True Pope and a False Pope, i.e. an anti-Pope

Anne Catherine Emmerich (German: Anna Katharina Emmerick), was a Roman Catholic Augustinian nun, stigmatic, mystic, visionary, and ecstatic and had many visions, including a prophetic vision of a Roman Catholic Pope.

Some followers of Pope Gregory XVII - Cardinal Siri - reference this prophecy as referring to Cardinal Siri.  Here is the text:

“I saw also the relationship between the two popes. . . I saw how baleful would be the consequences of this false church. I saw it increase in size; heretics of every kind came into the city of Rome. The local clergy grew lukewarm, and I saw a great darkness...”

“Once more I saw that the Church of Peter was undermined by a plan evolved by the secret sect, while storms were damaging it.”

[Editor's Note:  Various Catholic prophecies predict an anti-pope and a schism.]

“I saw a strange church being built against every rule. . . No angels were supervising the building operations. In that church, nothing came from high above. . . There was only division and chaos. It is probably a church of human creation, following the latest fashion, as well as the new heterodox church of Rome, which seems of the same kind...”

“I saw again the strange big church that was being built there (in Rome). There was nothing holy in it. I saw this just as I saw a movement led by Ecclesiastics to which contributed angels, saints and other Christians. But there (in the strange big church) all the work was being done mechanically (i.e., according to set rules and formulae). Everything was being done, according to human reason...”

“I saw all sorts of people, things, doctrines, and opinions. There was something proud, presumptuous, and violent about it, and they seemed to be very successful. I did not see a single Angel nor a single saint helping in the work. But far away in the background, I saw the seat of a cruel people armed with spears, and I saw a laughing figure which said:  Do build it as solid as you can; we will put it to the ground.”

[Editor's Note:  These passages seems to indicate two different churches.

The First is a false church, a puppet church, so to speak, made up by evil people, some speculate it is made by Communists, Freemasons, or maybe Zionists?

The Second is also a false church, a "strange church", comprising "all sorts of people and doctrines" (perhaps in the name of Ecumenism?), which will follow modern trends. This church is "unholy and humanistic," but it is not Communist inspired, otherwise the Communists would not want to pull it to the ground.

This church is apparently the Roman Catholic Church after it has been completely subverted from within, or it is a new church claiming to be the Roman Catholic Church.

Some prophecies seem to indicate that the Roman Catholic Church will disappear for a time as a visible organization, but, although disorganized, it will survive in the persons of the faithful members of the clergy and laity who will go underground into Catacombs III.]

“Among the strangest things that I saw, were long processions of bishops. Their thoughts and utterances were made known to me through images issuing from their mouths. Their faults towards religion were shown by external deformities. A few had only a body, with a dark cloud of fog instead of a head. Others had only a head, their bodies and hearts were like thick vapors. Some were lame; others were paralytics; others were asleep or staggering.”

“Then, I saw that everything that pertained to Protestantism was gradually gaining the upper hand, and the Catholic religion fell into complete decadence. Most priests were lured by the glittering but false knowledge of young school-teachers, and they all contributed to the work of destruction.”

[Editor's Note:  The passage I saw that everything that pertained to Protestantism was gradually gaining the upper hand, and the Catholic religion fell into complete decadence could have two meanings, or possibly dual or simultaneous meanings?

One possible meaning is that Protestant churches will eventually buy many former Roman Catholic Church buildings.  This has been happening in many States, or perhaps all of the States, e.g. former Roman Catholic Churches have been purchased by Baptists in Lafayette, Louisiana, or rented to various Protestant groups, e.g. Mid-Western and Eastern States.

Another possible meaning is that the Protestant liturgy will become the official liturgy, especially for the Mass, in the new church?  IF one prayerfully compares the New Mass, the Novus Ordo Missae, with the 1st and 2nd Prayer Books of Edward VI, which were put together by the first Protestant Archbishop of Canterbury, ex-Catholic Archbishop Thomas Cranmer, one will find some interesting similarities, e.g. standing for Communion per the "Black Rubric" of Protestant Archbishop Thomas Cranmer, the making the Mass a "memorial meal" instead of keeping it a Sacrifice as Christ perfectly instituted it, etc.

Proof for this is to be found in the Consilium itself which made up the New Mass which was composed in part of 6 active Protestants!  Here is their photo standing with Pope Paul 6 after having finished their work of turning the Holy Sacrifice of the Catholic Mass into a Protestant Memorial Supper Meal.

The 6 Protestants on the Consilium who helped to turn
the Catholic Mass into a Protestant Memorial Supper Meal

The 6 Protestants  are, from left to right:

Dr. George, Canon Jasper, Dr. Shephard, Dr. Konneth, Dr. Smith and Brother Max Thurian who represented the following Protestant organizations:  The World Council of Church, the Church of England, the Lutheran Church, and the Protestant Community of Taize.]

Commentary

From the above, it is easy to see how Catholics who wish to remain loyal and faithful to the Catholic Church and to her authentic Apostolic Tradition, could easily become discouraged with the anti-Catholic antics of the Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests, etc. of the "new church", a.k.a. the Vatican 2 church - named after Synod Vatican 2 which changed the Liturgical Rites for the Mass and the Seven Sacraments, along with many other things that used to be "Catholic", but which are now de facto "Protestant".

I have had a number of Protestant converts to the Catholic Church complain to me over the years about how the Protestant churches they left are now incorporated, in terms of their worship services, various beliefs, etc., into this "new church", or Vatican 2 church.  Not only do they express their frustration at this, but also their disappointment and even disgust in what they had been given to understand was the Roman Catholic Church, but which in many respects is now no different than the Protestant churches of their earlier years.  They have all told me, in words to this effect:

"I deliberately left the Protestant church to join the Roman Catholic Church.  But I woke up one day to discover the Roman Catholic Church had turned into the Protestant church I left!  Who is responsible for this blatant apostasy, schism, and heresy?"

I suspect there are many "cradle Catholics" who can empathize to some extent, with these former Protestants who thought that in joining the Roman Catholic Church they had forever left behind the Protestant church, because of their own personal experiences with the wholesale changes.  I have heard complaints from "cradle Catholics" about how for years when they were growing up, it was a Mortal Sin to eat meat on Friday.  But now, it is no sin at all.

One had to kneelto receive Holy Communion from an Ordained Priest who placed it on the tongue of the recipient who had to have fasted from Midnight.  Now - in this new church - you are supposed to stand and have a host (in some places it is something like a bagel or a donut) placed in your hand.

I have a relative who is a new church (Vatican 2 church) "Deacon" who was telling me some years ago how he was busy every Friday night and Saturday morning baking lots of cornbread which was used in place of hosts at communion!  From bread to cornbread in less than 20 years!!!  Liturgical degeneration - all in the name of "Vatican 2" changes!!!  God Help Us!!!

Therefore, within this context, it is very easy to understand how and why some Catholics would want to search for a "real, true" Pope, and leave the "nonsense" and all of the "changes" behind them.  They wanted to return to the way the Roman Catholic Church used to be before all of the changes were made to it by Synod Vatican 2 and by the Vatican 2 Popes of the new church - the Vatican 2 church.

anti-Pope Michael I

Hence, the popularity among some Traditionalist Catholics of various "wanna-be" Popes.  Regarding the concern as to whether or not these anti-Popes are evil and/or diabolical, the anti-Popes mentioned or referenced in this answer, to the best of my knowledge, are NOT evil and are NOT diabolical, with perhaps one or two exceptions at the very most?

Based upon the information currently at my disposal, it seems that most probably all of the anti-Popes mentioned herein are, with perhaps the usual few exceptions, good men, decent human beings, who became just as concerned about all of the changes to the Roman Catholic Faith, Liturgy, etc., as did many other Catholics s.

The difference was that, with apparently the best of intentions - especially in the case of anti-Pope Michael I - these men, for a variety of reasons, and in a variety of ways, each became a "pope" of the Roman Catholic Church.  Most of them apparently consider themselves to be a genuine Pope, a lawful Pope, and a valid Pope of the Roman Catholic Church.  They feel they have legitimate reasons to justify their claim of being a Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, with some quoting credible sources to try to substantiate their claim.

There are some exceptions to this as in the case of one anti-Pope - the "Little Pebble" - who I understand is currently in prison in Australia.  One source on the internet mentions three names of three of these "anti-Popes" which turns out to be three names one man chose as a kind of comedy to spoof all the other anti-Popes.  Obviously, people such as this perverse person are not serious and seem to ignore the real reasons which have motived all of the other anti-Popes to declare themselves a Roman Catholic "Pope"!

Another exception could be perhaps another one or two or maybe no more than three other "popes" who are nothing more than "con-men" or "opportunists" who, whether intentionally or unintentionally, have set out to give some Traditionalist Catholics what they wanted, but only ended by making such Catholics even more pessimistic and disillusioned, especially when the inevitable was discovered that some - not all - of these "wanna-be" Pope "con-men" were not even validly Ordained Priests, but only laymen wearing Roman Collars and white Cassocks, who have no interest in "saving" the Church from what are considered by some as the highly questionable Popes in the Vatican, while still others consider the Vatican 2 Popes to be not only illegal Popes but also invalid Popes.

In general, therefore, most of the anti-Popes are good men who are very sincere and honest in wanting to do what they can do in order to "save" the Roman Catholic Church from the "false" Popes, from the "anti-Popes", who have been occupying the Vatican, beginning with 2nd Pope John 23, but who do not realize the reality - for whatever reason(s) - that THEY are the ones who are definitely, without any question, real "anti-Popes", and thus have ended by imputing to the Vatican 2 Popes that of which they themselves (these "anti-Popes") are guilty - namely, they are the ones who are definitely "anti-Popes"!

However, none of these anti-Popes should be condemned for wanting to do good by trying to correct the situation concerning the Vatican 2 Popes.  Nevertheless, imputing nothing but sincere good to their motives, the anti-Popes are all in error for going about trying to "fix" the alleged problems concerning the Vatican 2 Popes in the wrong way.  Whatever problem(s) the Vatican 2 Popes (or anti-Popes as some believe them to be) have can NOT even begin to be fixed by setting up any "pope" against a Vatican 2 Pope!

PRAYER - not anti-Pope(s) - is the ultimate "solution", it is the correct "answer", to whatever some perceive to be as "problems" with the Vatican 2 Popes!  The anti-Popes have simply created problems where before no problems existed!!!  Some critics may opine how "the path to Hell is paved with good intentions"?

On the contrary, I would respectfully remind such critics that God is their judge and that we, in the fullness of genuine Christian Charity, should all pray for the conversion of all anti-Popes, whoever they are - this is the correct way to imitate Christ and to act in an objective manner as a responsible, mature Catholic, who, with purity of intention, leaves subjective issues and personalities aside, all for the Greater Honor and Glory of God and the Salvation of Immortal Souls!

Brief History of Conclavism

Some writers consider Conclavism to be a phenomenon linked with sedevacantism - which developed in the late 1960's and 1970's, following the implementation of the various anti-Catholic changes by Synod Vatican 2 and its Popes.

Archbishop Thuc

The idea of having a conclave composed only of Bishops, or possibly including a few Priests, began to gain some momentum in the late 1970's and culminated, at least for the Bishops in the Line of Archbishop Thuc, in the early 1980's.

Thuc-Line Bishops. left to right, Bishop Zamora, Bishop Carmona, and Bishop Musey

The Thuc Bishops from the U.S., Mexico, and possibly one or two other countries met in Mexico to "elect a true Pope" from "one of our own".

Historically, it is not uncommon for a Pastor to have met the members of all ranks of the Roman Catholic Clergy from Cardinals to Archbishops to Bishops to Priests, etc.  The numbers of the members of all of these ranks of the Clergy obviously vary from individual Pastor to individual Pastor.

Therefore, it should come as no surprise to anyone that, just as most, if not all, Pastors, as a Pastor, I, too, have had my share, actually much more than my "share", of the numbers of the members of all ranks of the Roman Catholic Clergy I have met in person, not to mention my written correspondence with some of them, and of course numerous telephone calls as well over many, many years.

This helps to explain my having met some, but certainly not all, of the Roman Catholic Clergy who eventually succumbed to the temptation of the so-called Imperfect Council and/or Conclavism.  Please keep in mind that these Roman Catholic Clergy had been Ordained to the Holy Priesthood prior to Synod Vatican 2.  Therefore, they do not fall into the category of some of the later so-called Roman Catholic Clergy who never even attended a Roman Catholic Seminary before Synod Vatican 2.

Cardinal Saint Robert Bellarmine, S.J.

Supposedly Cardinal Saint Robert Bellarmine, S.J. [b. Montepulciano, Italy, on Sunday, October 4, 1542 A.D. - d. Rome, Italy, on Friday, September 17, 1621 A.D.] was the first to write about an Imperfect Council.

Father Joaquin Sáenz y Arriaga, S.J., PhD., Th. D., J.C.D.

Another Jesuit, Father Sáenz, S.J., was probably the first person in the 20th Century to suggest an Imperfect Council in order to "fix" the grave problems of Heresy and Apostasy from the Roman Catholic Church by the Vatican 2 Popes.  Bishops Carmona and Zamora, who had been his "students" before his death, eventually held an Imperfect Council-Papal Conclave in Mexico either during the latter part of 1982 or sometime during 1983.

Mr. Gary Giuffre
President of Traditional Catholics of Houston, Inc.

But before this happened, on Sunday, August 27, 1978, the very next day after the election of the Vatican 2 Pope, John-Paul 1, JP-1, Albano Luciani [Saturday, August 26, 1978 - Thursday, September 28, 1978] who was chosen to replace the deceased Pope Paul 6, Giovanni Battista Montini [Friday, June 21, 1963 - Sunday, August 6, 1978]  the idea of an Imperfect Council was put in high gear by Mr. Gary Giuffre who, in those days, lived in Houston, Texas.

A petition letter of about twelve pages, which was addressed to both Cardinal Ottaviani and Cardinal Slipyj, petitioned both Cardinals to organize all of the other Roman Catholic Traditional Cardinals who were still in Rome after the selection of Pope John-Paul 1, and for all of these Cardinals to immediately hold an Imperfect Council in order for these Traditional-minded Cardinals to elect a real Roman Catholic Pope for the first time since the death of Pope Pius XII, Eugenio Pacelli [Thursday, March 2, 1939 - Thursday, October 9, 1958] on Thursday, October 9, 1958.

Attached to these duplicate petition letters were the pages of the petition-signatures of many of the adult Roman Catholic Traditional Catholics from the Houston metropolitan area humbly and respectfully petitioning both Cardinals to take this action in order to elect a true Roman Catholic Pope.  Each person signed both petition letters because, although identical, one petition letter was only for Cardinal Ottaviani and the other petition letter was only for Cardinal Slipyj.

The following day, Monday, August 28, 1978, Mr. Giuffre sent these duplicate sets of these petition letters addressed to these two Cardinals (along with all of the petition signatures attached to these letters) to Mary Ball Martinez, an American journalist living in Rome, Italy who covered the Vatican, for personal delivery upon her receipt of same to the Rome residence of each of these two Cardinals.

Mary Martinez contacted Mr. Gary Giuffre to let him know that both petition letters had been hand-delivered to each Cardinal's residence and that each petition letter was accepted by a member of the Cardinal's staff at each residence.

However, history records that the Roman Catholic Traditional Cardinals apparently never held - at least no public notice was ever given to this effect - the desiredImperfect Council-Papal Conclave to elect a real Roman Catholic Traditional Pope from among this group of Cardinals.

Archbishop Thuc Offering Mass in Catacombs III

Hence it came about that, for various reasons, and under a wide variety of circumstances, that I met some of these same Roman Catholic Clergy.  Perhaps the most famous of this group who had moved to America was Archbishop Thuc of Hue, North Vietnam.

I likewise came into contact with others, though lesser know, Priests and Bishops, e.g. two Bishops in his Line of Apostolic Succession from Mexico and his two Bishops from the United States.  They, along with a number of like-minded pre-Vatican 2 Roman Catholic Priests, had several meetings, e.g. one in Dallas, Texas, another in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, etc.  One of the reasons for such meetings was to find "eligible" candidates for the Episcopacy from among these Roman Catholic Priests so that more than just these above five Prelates would be voting in the then forthcoming conclave in Mexico to elect a "Pope".

Personally, when I heard about this wild idea from one of the Thuc Bishops, I told him:  "Do not do it!  It is a very BAD idea!" Of course he was shocked by my observation.  But, after all, I was just not into "church politics" and hence a nobody missionary Priest like myself, not to mention other Pastors who basically told the other Thuc-Line Bishops the same thing, were all ignored.

So the papal conclave of the Thuc-Line Bishops finally took place in Mexico in the early part of the 1980's with the object of electing one of these Bishops a Roman Catholic Pope.

After the "Papal Election" in Mexico, I never did discover who they "elected Pope".

From a distance, I did observe that there seemed to be two opposite "political parties", the members of one politcal party attacking the members of the other politcal party.  What had once been an united group of very dedicated Catholic Bishops who had the greatest respect for each other, was now a group hopelessly divided which later sub-divided.

The Devil loves to dangle "good intentions" before a group and then divide them in order to conquer them.  So, for all intents and purposes, the Thuc-Line Bishops more or less faded into the background.  Since that disaster, most of the Thuc Bishops, or "Papal Electors", have died.  R.I.P.
 

He has no power to Bless!

He has no power to Baptize!

Powerless - Nuptial Blessing!

anti-Pope Michael I
He Allegedly Has NO Powers of the Holy Priesthood!
Why?  Because to the best of my knowledge, he IS NOT a Roman Catholic Priest!
N.B.  The "Simulation" of Priestly Powers Incurs the Censure of Automatic Excommunication!

David Bawden - Pope Michael I, the first anti-Pope listed below, had been a seminarian for a short time with the Society of Saint Pius X.  I no longer remember if he left or was asked to leave, but he had hopes that he could find at least one Thuc Bishop to Ordain him, apparently to the Priesthood?

Following the precedent of the Thuc Bishops who tried to elect a Pope "from one among their own" in an Imperfect Council-Papal Conclave in Mexico either during the latter part of 1982 or sometime during 1983, he tried to resurrect the idea in the middle to late 1980's, but with the alleged purpose of getting himself elected Pope?, and, as far as I know, he has never even been Tonsured, let alone Ordained to Minor Orders, not to mention Major Orders - Sub-Deacon, Deacon, or Priest!

He began to circulate notices to the editors of all sedevacantist publications that he could find, and supposedly notified Priests who were listed in a Traditional Catholic Mass Directory.  It is claimed that he sent over 200 copies of a book he wrote to various recipients in twenty countries.

According to various sources, David Bawden never was Ordained a Roman Catholic Priest or Consecrated a Roman Catholic Bishop.  IF this is true, which to the best of my ability I have found nothing to indicate it is not true, then the above photographic evidence testifies to the fact that the Layman -  David Bawden - attempted to administer a Blessing, attempted to solemnly administer the Sacrament of Baptism to an infant, and also attempted to solemnly administer the Nuptial Blessing?

In terms of Canon Law - Church Law - this is called "simulation" which is an act by which one pretends to be what he is not, in this case it is a layman who is pretending to be a Roman Catholic Priest.

Canon Law provides the Penalty/Censure for this simulation which is found in Canon 2256:

Can. 2256. In canonibus qui sequuntur:

1. Nomine divinorum officiorum intelliguntur functiones potestatis ordinis, quae de instituto Christi vel Ecclesiae ad divinum cultum ordinantur et a solis clericis fieri queunt;

2. Nomine autem actuum legitimorum ecclesiasticorum significantur: munus administratoris gerere bonorum ecclesiasticorum; partes agere iudicis, auditoris et relatoris, defensoris vinculi, promotoris iustitiae et fidei, notarii et cancellarii, cursoris et apparitoris, advocati et procuratoris in causis ecclesiasticis; munus patrini agere in sacramentis baptismi et confirmationis; suuffragium ferre in electionibus ecclesiasticis; ius patronatus exercere. (Codex Iuris Canonici, Canon 2256).

In one Commentary on this Canon, one finds:

"III. Can. 2256 explains the terms used to designate certain effects or consequences of penalties which occur in the following canons."

"a) By divine offices (divinorum officiorum) are to be understood those functions of power of order (potestatis ordinis} which have been established by [Christ] divine or ecclesiastical authority and are performed only by the clergy. Such are the celebration of Holy Mass, the administration of the Sacraments [this includes the Solemn Administration of the Sacrament of Baptism as seen in the middle photo above.] and sacramentals (Blessings [seen in the 1st photo from the left side and the Nuptial Blessing in the 3rd photo from the left side], sepulture, public service, preaching, choir service, processions) etc." (emphasis added.)  (Source is:  Charles Augustine Bachofen, O.S.B., D.D., Professor of Canon Law, A Commentary on the New Code of Canon Law, Volume VIII - Book V - Penal Code (Canons 2195 - 2414), Canon 2256).

Another Commentary says much the same thing about Canon 2256:

"109. 3. Some terms used in defining the effects of Censures. (Canon 2256).

(a) By divine offices [divinorum officiorum] are meant the functions of the power of Orders, which by the institution of Christ or of the Church pertain to the Divine worship and are reserved to clerics, [i.e. to Priests and Bishops] such as the administration of the sacraments, preaching the word of God, blessings" (Source is:  Very Rev. H. A. Ayrinhac, S.S.,D.D., D.C.L., Penal Legislation in the New Code of Canon Law (Liber V - Book 5), pp. 114-115).

The actual penalties/censures concerning Canon 2256 in regard to the actions found in the above photographic evidence are found in Canon 2322, # 4:

"4. The penalties inflicted are: (a) excommunication latae sentcntiae reserved speciali modo to the Holy See. The phrase here is not accompanied by any extenuating or modifying word, such as praesumpserit, scienter, etc.; (b) all the other penalties are ferendae sententiae. This is also true of the punishments to be inflicted arbitrarily, i. e., proportionately to the seriousness of the criminal act, when persons who are not priests usurp the exercise of other priestly functions. Of this kind would be blessings reserved to priests if given by laymen [e.g. the Nuptial Blessing as in photo # 3 above]. (emphasis added).  (Source is:  Charles Augustine Bachofen, O.S.B., D.D., Professor of Canon Law, A Commentary on the New Code of Canon Law, Volume VIII - Book V - Penal Code (Canons 2195 - 2414), Canon 2322, # 4).

Therefore, in virtue of the Canon Law of the Roman Catholic Church, 1917 edition, which is the edition of Canon Law he uses, because of the above acts which were captured via photographic evidence, anti-Pope Michael (a.k.a. David Bawden) automatically excommunicated himself in violation of the provisions of Canon 2256, # 1 for which the penalties/censures found in Canon 2322, # 4 were automatically activated by anti-Pope Michael (a.k.a. David Bawden)!

ALL laymen in Roman Collars who pretend to be validly Ordained Roman Catholic Priests and/or validly Consecrated Roman Catholics Bishops should take heed of what the above person did, who apparently had the very best of intentions possible, to get himself automatically excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church, and concerning which excommunication he is probably not even aware that he was automatically excommunicated??!!
 

Ken Mock is credited by some as having been the "Father" of Conclavism apparently based upon his involvement with the Pope Michael Bawden case - which Pope Michael supposedly claimed Mock tried to stop because Mock was in favor of a Von Pentz - whose election he supposedly also tried to block because he apparently changed his mind and this time was for the election of Father Lucian Pulvermacher, as Pope.  Mock reportedly also lost faith in Pulvermacher and is claimed to have thought that Pulvermacher was trying to rig the election in his own favour.

However, based upon the activities of the Thuc Bishops in their own Imperfect Council-Papal Conclave in Mexico either during the latter part of 1982 or sometime during 1983, it is the Thuc-Line Bishops who are the "Fathers" of Conclavism, or most especially the two Mexican Bishops:

Bishop Carmona

1) Bishop Moisés Carmona y Rivera, D.D., [b. at Quechultenango, Guerrero, Mexico on Thursday, October 31, 1912 A.D. - d. martyred in Mexico on Friday, November 1, 1991 A.D.].

Bishop Zamora

2) Bishop Adolfo Zamora y Roberto Martinez D.D., of Mexico City, Mexico ([ b  1910 A.D. -  d. Sunday, May 3, 1987 A.D.].

Father Sáenz

These two Bishops, when yet Priests, along with Father Joaquin Sáenz y Arriaga, S.J., PhD., Th. D.,  J.C.D. [b. on Thursday, October 12, 1899 A.D.  - d. Wednesday, April 28, 1976 A.D.], established an organization they called the Unión Católica Trento (Catholic Union of Trent).

However, because Father Joaquin Sáenz y Arriaga, S.J., PhD., Th. D.,  J.C.D., who was a prolific writer, and who was their mentor/teacher concerning the changes in the church and various theological issues, which resulted in his own desire to have an "imperfect council" in order to "elect a real Pope", it seems only fair to identiy Father Joaquin Sáenz y Arriaga, S.J., PhD., Th. D.,  J.C.D. as the ultimate real "Father" of Conclavism in the 20th Century.

It has been my personal experiences that the "younger generation", whether of Clergy (Bishops and Priests), or of the Laity, simply do not know very much about what happened in Catacombs III between the early 1960's through the late 1980's because many of them were not even born then?!

Unfortunately, the older Catholic Traditional Bishops and Priests have been so pre-occupied in Offering Mass, Administering the Sacraments, and teaching and preaching, plus the time-consuming missionary travel which these Holy Functions required, that they simply did not have the time to write about their own personal experiences during this time period and hence not much is know by others about this time period except by those Clergy who actually lived through it!

Partial List of Some Conclavist anti-Popes
 

anti-Pope Michael I

anti-Pope Michael [1990]. In 1990, Teresa Stanfill-Benns (who later condemned this "Papal Election") and David Bawden of Kansas in the USA, called for a conclave to elect a pope. They publicized their request around the world, but only six people participated in the election. On July 16, 1990, the six gathered in Belvue, Kansas, and elected Bawden who took the name Pope Michael I.

anti-Pope Linus II
Victor von Pentz

anti-Pope Linus II [1994]. Another conclave, this time held in Assisi, Italy, elected the South African Victor von Pentz as Pope Linus II in 1994. Linus II took up residence in Hertfordshire, England.

anti-Pope Pius XIII
Father Lucian Pulvermacher

anti-Pope Pius XIII [1998]. In October 1998, the U.S. based "true Catholic Church" elected Father Lucian Pulvermacher as Pope Pius XIII.

Some years ago I ended up in an E-Mail correspondence for several months, as I remember it, with one of his "Cardinals" who lived in Australia.  One of my many questions to this "Cardinal" was if he was physically present for this "Papal Election", but this "Cardinal" refused to answer this simple question.  I therefore took the position he was not physically present at the "Conclave" and I suspect most of the other Papal Electors were not present either - after all, the Popes tiny mountain cabin (at least the photos I have seen of it) would obviously not be able to hold many people?  The bottom line is that eventually this "Cardinal", who was a Layman, abandoned anti-Pope Pius XIII.

anti-Pope Leo XIV [2006]. On March 24, 2006 a group of 34 episcopi vagantes elected the Argentine Oscar Michaelli as Pope Leo XIV. On his death on February 14, 2007, he was succeeded by Juan Bautista Bonetti, who took the name of Pope Innocent XIV, but he had the good sense to "resign" on May 29, 2007

Mystical anti-Popes

Technically distinct from the above Conclavist anti-Popes is the category of "mystical popes", sometimes called "mysticalists", whose claims to the papacy derive from alleged divine revelations or apparitions. In these cases, there is no "conclave" process, and hence the term "conclavism" is irrelevant.

As can be seen, several of these individuals have called themselves Peter II, a name that is normally considered taboo for a Pope and which has apocalyptic connotations in Catholic circles.  Peter II is the last in the list of Popes of Archbishop Malachy.

Alleged Divine appointment as Pope has been claimed by the following, but this list is probably not exhaustive.

anti-Pope Clement XV [1950] Michel Collin [d. 1974] whose cult still survives, although it is apparently currently divided into different factions.  He was allegedly an ultra-Modernist who pretended to be a Mystic. He was formally excommunicated by Pope Pius XII in 1954 as a fraud, con-man, opportunist, and declared to be a Vitandus.

anti-Pope Gregory XVII
Gaston Tremblay

anti-Pope Gregory XVII [1978] Gaston Tremblay, Apostles of Inifite Love - St. Jovite, Quebec, Canada.  Without proof, some claim he is an Ultra-Modernist who pretends to be a Mystic.  His papal claim was asserted in 1978.  He is the successor of anti-Pope Clement XV, Michel Collin.

anti-Pope Emmanuel I [1973], is the Italian Gino Frediani [1913-1984], a Priest of Gavinana, who asserted his claim in 1973.

anti-Pope Peter II [1977 or 1980], Chester Olszewski of Pennsylvania, a former Episcopalian Priest, who asserted his claim in 1977 or 1980.
 
 

anti-Pope Gregory XVII
Clemente Domínquez y Gómez

anti- Pope Gregory XVII [1978], Clemente Domínquez y Gómez [b. May 23 1946 - present].  He was proclaimed Pope Gregory XVII by supporters of the Palmar de Troya Catholic breakway movement in 1978.

anti-Pope Gregory XIX [1983], the American Reinaldus Michael Benjamins, who asserted his claim in 1983.
 
 

anti-Pope Adrian VII
Bishop Francis Schuckardt

anti-Pope Adrian VII [1984], Bishop Francis Schuckardt [1937 - 2006] of the Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen in Idaho, who asserted his claim in 1984.

anti-Pope Valerian I [1990], born Valeriano Vestini, an Italian, of Chieti, Italy, who asserted his claim in 1990.  He is a Capucin priest who claimed a mystical election to the Papacy in about 1990. He was most probably not Consecrated a Bishop.  As an anti-Pope, he "created" 24 "cardinals" in 1991 and began to "ordain" women. He invented his own liturgy for his cult and was suspended a divinis by his religious superiors in 1993. In September 1995, he returned to his community and is retired.

\

anti-Pope Innocent XIV
Father Khoat Tran
Photo Taken on June 15, 1988, the Day After his Meeting with Cardinal Siri

anti-Pope Innocent XIV, Father Khoat Tran, Vietnamese in exile.

Father Khoat Tran Meeting with Cardinal Siri
June 14, 1988